Ocean Center’s neighbors need to get a grip on reality
Friday 22 June 2012 at 5:16 pm.The Hatteras Island Ocean Center moved a step closer to reality on Monday night when the Dare County Board of commissioners unanimously approved an amendment to the Dare County zoning ordinance.
The amendment adds piers to the conditional uses allowed in the C-2 H district.
The ocean center would be located on 1.5 acres of oceanfront property in Hatteras village where the Gen. Mitchell Motel was located before it was destroyed by Hurricane Isabel in 2003. The non-profit board that is planning and raising funds for the center also has a contract for a parcel nearby, on the west side of Highway 12, that would be used for parking.
The ocean center also has an eye on three pieces of property to the west of the pier site and on the soundside of the highway. If the board is able to purchase that property, it will be used for walking, launching kayaks and canoes, a skate park, and the educational component of the center, including a nature education and research center, classrooms, and environmental education exhibits.
The scope of the project promises to be a terrific economic boon to Hatteras village and to the southern Hatteras Island.
At a hearing on the zoning change on Monday, five people spoke in favor of the project, including Eric Kaplan, who had the vision for the ocean center last summer and has worked tirelessly to make it a reality.
Kaplan splits his time between Charlottesville, Va., and Frisco, where he built a home several years ago.
Joining him to endorse the project were Steve Nelson, owner of the Inn on Pamlico Sound, Beth Midgett of Midgett Realty, Liz Browning Fox of Buxton, and Ann Wood of Surf or Sound Realty.
One person spoke in less glowing terms about the project. He was Ben Gallop, a Nags Head attorney, who represents the Summer Place Homeowners Association.
Gallop did not so much oppose the zoning change as he did talk about his clients’ concern about the project.
“It’s clear that the board supports the ocean center and pier,” Gallop said in an interview on Wednesday. “My clients asked me to address some of the details.”
The Summer Place Homeowners Association wrote the Board of Commissioners a two-page letter outlining their opposition. Gallop addressed some of those issues in his three-minutes at the hearing.
The commissioners approved the zoning change, and said that other issues about lighting, erosion, and damage to the pier could be addressed later.
The Ocean Center will have to present a site plan to the county planning board and the commissioners for approval.
The homeowners association represents 40 owners of vacation homes in Summer Place, a very upscale development.
They stressed in their letter, as Gallop did in the interview, that they do not oppose economic development, more jobs, more education or any other aspect of the project.
In fact, they do not oppose the concept of an ocean center. They say in their letter and in e-mails to Eric Kaplan that they support it and want to work with him on it.
Their attorney stresses that they are “not opposed to development” next to their properties.
The homeowners knew when they bought their property that the neighboring land was zoned commercial and that condos or a restaurant or shopping center or the like could be built there, Gallop said.
In fact, one of the proposals for the land after Hurricane Island was a 51-unit condominium development.
That, Gallop said, the homeowners would not oppose.
The one and only thing they oppose is the pier.
The pier, they say, would ruin their unobstructed view of the ocean.
They like that, and they say the folks who rent their houses write in the guest book that they really like the view – and the empty beach and all that.
These people really need to get a grip on reality.
Not one of them came to the hearing. They sent an attorney to represent them.
Kaplan has tried to reach out to the homeowners and even meet with them as a group or in a series of smaller meetings, but the board prefers that he deal with them and not with the homeowners directly.
In e-mails to Kaplan and in their letter to the Board of Commissioners, the homeowners make a case that their interests are “aligned with other members of the local community.” They say that they are significant contributors to the economic vitality of Hatteras village and that “we are all in this together.”
They say in their letter that there is a possibility that there would be “very little net positive economic impact” of a pier.
Their reasoning is that studies show the vast majority of fishing pier use occurs between May and October, when rental units are already full or nearly so.
“Thus,” they say, “it is unlikely that the pier will produce a net increase in economic activity.”
The Summer Place Homeowners Association has completely missed the point of how the ocean center could significantly improve the economy of Hatteras village.
Sure, rental houses in the village are full in the summer season and folks who stay in them shop in the village and eat in restaurants and the like.
However, Hatteras village needs more.
It needs visitors who are staying in other villages or north of the Bonner Bridge to come to the village to shop and eat. As it is now, a lot of them come to the village, but most are on their way to the ferry docks and pass by most local shops and restaurants.
An ocean center with a fishing pier, a restaurant, some shops, educational programs, nature and kayaking trails, and much more would draw in those visitors. It would give them a reason to come to Hatteras village and stay a while instead of just passing through.
One of the concerns the homeowners put forth is their concern about storm damage to the pier and whether the non-profit board would be able to pay for repairs.
That’s valid to discuss as the project goes forward.
The Summer Place Homeowners need to realize that fishing piers are a traditional use of oceanfront property, not only on the North Carolina Coast but up and down the East Coast.
Folks love to fish on them and stroll on them and watch the fishermen. They are places nostalgically remembered by many, many families whose summer vacation included a trip to the beach.
All the Summer Place homeowners are seeing is an eyesore that would ruin the view from their expensive homes.
I go back to the blog I wrote in December, entitled “Why we need the Hatteras Island Ocean Center:
“I think the best thing about the Hatteras Island Ocean Center is that it would be an economic engine, but would also offer islanders and visitors a place to fish, swim, surf, and dine with ocean views – and teach us all about our barrier island environment I wrote then.
“The Ocean Center board members are invested in seeing this project through without ruining the scenery and the environment, but enhancing it.
“It will give the community a hub, a gathering place. And it will bring in tourists.”
The Summer Place Homeowners have some valid concerns, and they should work with the Ocean Center board to address such issues as damage to the pier and lighting.
But they need to get over this issue of having their view ruined. There are three other fishing piers on Hatteras, and they don’t seem to have ruined property values in the neighborhood, even the falling-down Frisco Pier, which has not been open for three seasons.
The ocean center has come a long way in less than a year, and it still has a long way to go. But it has the potential to be one of the best things that ever happened to Hatteras village.
And I really don’t understand why the owners of those very expensive properties would rather have a 51-unit condominium complex as a neighbor than an attractive fishing pier to provide recreation and education.
FOR MORE INFORMATION
To read two previous stories in Island Free Press about the plans for the Hatteras Island Ocean Center, go to http://islandfreepress.org/2011Archives/11.14.2011-HatterasIslandOceanCenterIsANewProjectThatWouldBeAFishingPierAndMuchMore and
http://islandfreepress.org/2012Archives/03.21.2012-UPDATEPlansForTheHatterasIslandOceanCenterMovingForward.html
To check on updates on the ocean center and see site plans and an architect’s rendering of the pier and pier house, go to the website, www.hioceancenter.org.
54 comments
Sounds like a case of the NIMBY’s. Someone is always against everything. They’ve got theirs and the rest of us can take a hike. Build it.
James Sloan - 23-06-’12 02:04
The Hatteras Island Ocean Center sounds, to me, like a very positive project for Hatteras Village, the entire Island, and the Outer Banks as a whole.
Once built I’m sure everyone will benefit and think more positive about it.
Future generations will benefit the most because they will see the true and positive lasting impact that it will provide for the area and their families.
A well executed plan will benefit everyone.
Rob Beedie (URL) - 23-06-’12 02:15
I wonder if these folks were also part of the Hatteras Island Home Owners Assn, represented at REG-NEG, who wanted vehicles banned from village beaches year round.
Salvo Jimmy - 23-06-’12 06:04
I think what the Island needs for an economic boost is free and open beaches! I would not care to live next to a fishing pier and amusement center but it may actually be an attraction for some renters as well as visitors.
As someone who discovered the OBX while growing up next to the NJ shore I am always skeptical of any coastal development —- but also repectful of the right of property owners to build what zoning allows.
The correct name for their association should be – Summer Place ‘Rental Machine’ Owners Club. This are NOT homes.
Also, Does anyone remember HURRICANE ISABEL 2003 ?
VILLAGE IDIOT - 23-06-’12 08:44
I am proud to be a member of the group of property management companies of Hatteras Island that are united to support the Hatteras Island Ocean Center. As a resident of Hatteras Village and a Realtor, I am in full support of the Pier and accompanying educational center and see it strengthening the economic, social and ecological well-being of our village.
Piers have long been part of the history of the Outer Banks and Hatteras Island. As a matter of fact, it was not that many years ago that the Village of Hatteras was fully supported by the many piers that extended into the sound behind it. Much of the commerce was sustained from connecting piers which allowed for the offloading and loading of supplies, the commercial fishing catch and visitors to and from the mainland. This project is geared towards marrying our Villages past as a commercial fishing village with it’s future… supporting not only fishing but historic and eco-tourism as well.
As a vacation rental manager, I can attest to the fact that while we can approach or reach full capacity on many summer weeks, we cannot discount the impact that day trippers have on our Island’s economy. Each opportunity we have to expose a day visitor to our Island is an opportunity to engage them in a longer stay perhaps even in the shoulder seasons.
With the impact of Hurricane Isabel, we lost many of the short stay opportunities we had with the motels in the Village and I think many of our restaurateurs , shopkeepers and other small business owners will attest to that fact that their business has suffered as a result. While our rental cottages do attract a large number of visitors, the very nature of their lodging, (having full kitchens and amenity packages) do not always necessitate their occupants to avail themselves of the offerings of our other businesses. We need projects such as the Ocean Center to make us more well rounded and attractive to Visitors year round.
The above being said, the Summerplace owners are members our community. They pay taxes and contribute a lot to our economy asking for few services in return. I am grateful that they have chosen Hatteras Island as an investment for their homes. They have valid concerns that should be addressed. Among these, making sure light impact is minimized, setbacks are adequate and the architecture of the buildings and overall aesthetic presence of the project fit the coastal village feel of the area. Those items can and should be addressed in the overall conditional use permit for the project.
Our visitors are our lifeblood on the Island. We all know of the myriad of changes that we have faced in the past several years and the challenges we are having in reinventing what we have to offer our visitors while holding on to the treasures that our Island has to offer, our history, our natural beauty and our fishing heritage. This project squarely meets our current and future needs.
Beth Midgett - 23-06-’12 13:24
I just have to say it…someone has to say: “If you build it, they will come.”
Linda Conner - 23-06-’12 16:10
How many Hatteras residents were thrilled when the sky and dune blocking painted monsters started being built in Summerplace? Get a grip, people!
Sue in Frisco - 23-06-’12 16:45
I am all for the Ocean Center. It will most certainly bring more business to Hatteras. I hope this does not cause people to give up the fight for free and open access.
Bob Ruhle - 23-06-’12 17:25
If you think this is going to bring Hatteras back to the 60s and 70s, go ahead build your pier, you blew it on the beach , judge Boil, issue , try not to blow this one. Since you think Buildings are going to save you. I vote vote for keepig the ocean Free and Clear…..
dobby do - 23-06-’12 22:16
I think that Frisco, where there is a pier site would work better. How about the traffic on 12 as people park and walk across the street w/ all their stuff to the pier.
Jose Simon - 24-06-’12 00:08
too bad someone doesn’t do something with the old golf course in frisco……endless possibilities
bbc - 24-06-’12 07:10
I was just looking at the Frisco pier yesterday wishing it was repaired. The current closures impact fishing from the beach to the extent a pier might be an alternative, particularly if packaged with other amenities (bar and grill).
The problem is still the same problem, what’s the attraction for going to a seashore for most people? The seashore, and if huge chunks of it are closed/heavily regulated they don’t come. What developer wants to invest in that kind of negative environment? I was going to go out on the Miss Hatteras, was told they had ZERO people signed up for Saturday and Sunday, but hey, the island economy is fine.
Yeah there may be some occupancy in these houses, but often not the type that will spend money at many of the traditional island businesses. I think I encounter one of those JO’s last night at the Quarterdeck, laying on her horn because I was waiting for a spot up front someone was leaving, I pulled forward to let her off 12, she zipped into the spot (a Marlin Club member, had to get in quick before her jewelry got wet), whereas I had my 81 year old mother with me (3 strokes and knee replacement). Did the Marlin Club help us in reg/neg or were they also part the infamous “hatteras homeonwers ASSociation”?
Denny in Dayton - 24-06-’12 08:05
Everybody who is taking the time to read Irene’s blog has at least one thing in common: They care about Hatteras Island. Based on this one thing that unifies us, I have the following suggestions:
1) If you think the Ocean Center is a good idea, get involved. It is a big project and we need your help.
2) If you don’t like the idea of the Ocean Center, get involved in something else that you believe is positive for Hatteras Island.
3) If you have questions about the Ocean Center, ask me. I try to answer all emails, I answer my phone, and I return voicemails. Please note that there is an FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) page on the Ocean Center website
http://www.hioceancenter.org). Here’s an example of what you’ll find on the FAQs page:
Q: Why not repair the Frisco Pier instead of building a new pier at a new location?
A: In today’s economy, to be economically viable, a pier needs a modern pier house to help generate enough income to subsidize the cost of building and maintaining the pier. The plan for the Ocean Center is to build a 10,000 square foot (2 stories of 5,000 square feet per story) pier house. Along with the pier house, enough parking is required to support the activity at the pier house and the pier. There is not enough room at the location of the Frisco Pier for a modern pier house and the number of parking spaces required.
The Ocean Center also has a Facebook page that contains the same FAQ information: http://www.facebook.com/hioceancenter..
I got involved because I wanted to make a difference. And just from the time this project started, August, 2011, I think there has been an impact. People are coming together to help and there has been some new energy injected into our community. Yes, it is a cliché, but one person can make a difference. So, please, support Hatteras Island—get involved.
Respectfully,
Eric Kaplan
Founder
Hatteras Island Ocean Center, Inc.
A not-for-profit, 501(c )(3) corporation
Eric,thanks for the link.I was finally able to visualize the location and situation.I can understand the mansion owners concerns but feel that the needs of the many outweigh…but I agree that it looks like a great generator on many levels.And,like Denny says,with the beach closures-permanent or uncertain-seasonal or not,more access of any type seems welcome.I hope the community comes together on this one.
Hawk Hawkins - 24-06-’12 15:10
I visit the piers in Nags Head, and the Rodanthe pier. I’m not a fisherman, I just like to eat at a pier, enjoy shrimp and a beer at a pier, just sightsee at a pier. A new pier on Hatteras Island? Can’t wait. (OBX Resident since 1998)
Perry - 24-06-’12 17:13
I’m not against the idea. It could be great. My only issue has and always will be that it should be private enterprise.
I mean are the shops, etc. that lease space going to share their profits with us if we through our taxpayer dollars fund the physical facility? Will residents get to use the facility they are paying for? What about those who never use the facility, should they have their taxpayer dollars used to fund this? Here in BB when the homeowners association wanted money for dredging the homeowners who are not on water questioned why they should have to contribute. Ultimately, the contributions were made voluntary.
Basically, I need to be convinced why this endeavor qualifies as a non profit venture and why taxpayer funds should be used for it. I would suspect (but am not certain since I have never applied for a grant) that this type of justification will be required in grant applications.
Ginny - 25-06-’12 09:00
adding more businesses on the ocean concrete pier requires greater growth to support the new businesses and the existing businesses.
Maybe growth isn’t the answer. It’s time to stop the madness and preserve Hatteras Island before we grow our way into mediocrity. I vote for a small wooden fishing pier in character of what makes the island special.
why would any entity invest in such a huge project, in an area where people are no longer welcome?
anon - 25-06-’12 15:35
I checked my E-Mail expecting to find a reason for deleting my comments. The fact that your blog only supports one point of view is evident. It should also be published that you are a board member of this organization.
The owners of Durant Station Condos, The Cabanas and Sea Gull Motel should be made aware that the Park Service does not allow any swimming or surfing within 300 feet of the pier. This means that the visitors to those establishments will need to move away from the pier a minimum of 300’ to enter the ocean. The county commissioners obviously forgot how much occupancy taxes are collected from these rentals. Not to mention how much is paid by the owners in Summer Place. For those who are unaware, occupancy tax is 5% and sales tax is 6.75% for a total of 11.75%. So when you critize the home owners who pay these taxes, plus the Dare County Real Estate taxes, they have a right to have a say in the decisions that will affect their property’s value and their rental income.
I do not want to see a pier in the Atlantic Ocean tangent to Hatteras Village.
Eddie Skakle (Roots) - 25-06-’12 18:47
Eddie,
Are you saying that I deleted comments that you made on this blog?
That is not correct.
I have deleted none of your comments, nor I have I deleted comments that any other readers have made on this blog. And they have posted comments on various sides of the issues.
As Eric Kaplan has already noted, I am not a board member of the Ocean Center.
I think your family owns property and a house in Summer Place.
Is that correct?
Irene
irene nolan - 25-06-’12 19:51
The National Park Service does NOT prohibit use of the ocean for swimming and surfing within 300 feet of a pier. The reasons for the signs on Frisco Pier are because the pier is falling down and NPS is concerned that someone might be injured by falling debris. NPS won’t be posting the new pier with any of those signs.
Eric Kaplan (URL) - 25-06-’12 21:14
My mother and my two brothers own a property in Summer Place, that is correct, but I do not. Since you say you are not on the board of directors, I apologize for repeating what was conveyed to me by someone who I thought was informed. As for the post, my daughter read it shortly after I submitted it to your site. I checked a little while later and it had been scrubbed, who knows?
As for the 300’ rule, I have been chased away from the Avon Pier and the Frisco Pier on numerous occasions by the National Park Rangers when I was more active in the surfing scene. The Rangers seemed to be very insistant that they were right and we were wrong! Mr. Eric you might need to check your facts as will I!
This huge project will bring very little benefit to the Village of Hatteras; Lee Robinsons, Red & White, AS Austins Co. (I own)Teach’s Lair Marina,Water Boys, various Sea Food Shops,The charter boat industry and all the businesses at The Landing(although most of the shops are owned by people from somewhere else other than Hatteras Village)! “IF” there is to be a financial boom that is discussed, all of these existing businesses will suffer, that seems contrary to the goal of Mr Kaplan. I heard him say that he was doing this project to help the people of Hatteras Village. Will there be housing built for the foreign laborers that will be necessary to operate this influx of activity. There certainly will not be enough visitors in the Village to support such a project, drivers will still zoom thru Downtown Hatteras on their way to the ferry! Let me pose another ecological question, what will happen when the 5’ tide comes up and washes all the filth off these large parking lots and into the Pamlico Sound and the oil ends up on the beach behind the Inn on the Pamlico? What about the struggling fish populations that only barely exist because of the dirty water already. Bob McBride who set pound nets in the sound will suffer! Financial boom? Helping people/Natives here on Hatteras Island? Mr. Kaplan, How many Hurricanes have you stayed through at your house in Frisco? “OR” have you turned tail and gone to the safety of your mountain home in Charlottsville, VA. Take some time and find out what is necessary to survive on the Island and in the Village of Hatteras. Next hurricane you can come and stay in one of my apartments in the building in the Middle of Hatteras Village that my Grandfather first built in the early 1900’s. Then you can sit down and explain how you are going to help the residents of Hatteras Village!
Eddie Skakle(Roots) - 25-06-’12 23:36
in the past there was a no surfing rule around the piers and motels but it’s been a long time since anyone has enforced it. those signs have been long gone.
bbc - 26-06-’12 06:35
One statement that can certainly be challenged is Mr. Kaplan’s about NPS not posting around a new pier. There is, indeed, no way you can honestly say this any more than those who said “NPS will never close our beaches.” NPS will do whatever they feel like, without consideration of logic, science, economy, or public/private resource. Until the corrupt and failed leadership of DOI is replaced (or ridden out of town on a rail) make no bets on what NPS will do —- except that it will continue to be inept.
Al Adam - 26-06-’12 07:35
This post is an attempt to provide clarity to some issues about the Hatteras Island Ocean Center…
What the National Park Service says about their policy about staying away from piers: “The NPS posted the signs after Frisco pier closed because of the hazards created by the deteriorated structure (such as broken-off, submerged pilings, etc.). When the pier was operational, we did not require the signs or have a specific policy about a safe distance.”
Regarding the impact of the Ocean Center on house rentals: I’ve been working very closely with the real estate community and every real estate professional I’ve spoken with expects this project to have a positive effect on the rental market. This is why seven rental companies are working together to help promote the project.
Concerning the size of this project, I don’t think huge is an accurate description. On the oceanfront there will be a 10,000 square foot pier house constructed that will be two stories of 5,000 square feet/story. There are rental homes in Hatteras Village that are taller than this and that have over 5,000 square feet. There will be a modestly sized public bath house. One the ocean side of Highway 12 parking is planned for 52 cars using space that was previously commercially developed and has been waiting for new commercial development. A condo project that was planned for the oceanfront site was called Sea Castle and it was to contain 51 units, so surely it would have had parking for at least 51 cars and would have been much larger than 10,000 square feet. Plans also call for a covered playground and a beach volleyball court.
Directly across Highway 12 there is parking planned for 72 cars on what is now two lots that used to contain commercial buildings. Some of what is left from the parking lots and building pads of these former businesses is still visible. Directly next to the parking lot there will be two additional lots used. One will contain underground septic and the other will be the back-up septic area that we hope to use for two additional beach volleyball courts.
Close by, south on Highway 12, on the sound side of the road we hope to acquire some properties that are zoned commercial and have previously been home to businesses (old parking lots and building pads are still visible). We’d like to leave these mostly undeveloped and use them as part of a Coastal Ecology Education Center.
The impact of the Ocean Center on local businesses is expected to be very positive. At the Ocean Center itself, there won’t be a lot of new locations for businesses. Plans call for a small tackle shop, two small food stands, and one small restaurant that will also have a walk-up window. Tenants in the spaces are expected to be current local business owners who want to expand their operations to a second location. A new fishing pier is expected to bring a lot of fishing to the area that will be good for all the area tackle shops, restaurants, motels, etc. The event room in the pier house will accommodate about 150 people and we are expecting it to be used often for weddings, etc. Those attending events are going to have to eat and sleep locally and will shop, rent kayaks, buy seafood, etc. The expectation is that this will bring quite a bit of new business for existing businesses. Those who I’ve spoken with who are already in the event hosting business believe that the Ocean Center is a good thing because there is a lot more business available than they can handle.
Information about the Ocean Center, including master plan, oceanfront site plan, drawings of the pier house, and pier house floor plans are available at http://www.hioceancenter.org..
As for protecting our wetlands, there was a recent site visit by Todd Miller founder of North Carolina Coastal Federation (www.nccoast.org), an organization dedicated to the protection of North Carolina’s wetlands. Todd had nothing but good things to say about the Ocean Center and has offered to be a resource to help make this project a reality. Todd’s visit was suggested by Ernie Foster. Ernie is one of a group of local fisherman who are providing guidance on the Coastal Ecology Education Center. The professional fishing community is excited to have a chance to tell our local ecology story from a different point of view than is commonly heard.
**
I’ve been coming to the Outer Banks since 1985, and for about the last ten years I’ve been coming to Hatteras Island. Since I’ve lived in Frisco, there have been two hurricanes: Earl and Irene. For Earl, I did evacuate because I thought it was the right thing to do. I didn’t want to be taking away resources from people who didn’t have another place to live. By the time hurricane Irene arrived I was much more part of the community than I was when Earl arrived, so I stayed. Before the storm hit I helped batten down the hatches for neighbors who were not able to do so for themselves. As soon as it was safe to go outside, I did. I rode around on my bicycle checking on neighbors to see if they needed any help. I didn’t leave the Island for quite some time because I didn’t want to take up space on the ferry that I felt might be needed by my neighbors. I’ve spent most of this last year on the Island working on this project. I’ve been here so I could get to know my neighbors and understand what it means to live on Hatteras Island. Most people I’ve met have been warm and welcoming. I am lucky enough to have a home in Frisco and a home in downtown Charlottesville (there are no mountains in downtown Charlottesville last time I checked). My wife could not live in Frisco full-time because she has too many medical issues and Charlottesville has two good hospitals and a lot of good doctors. So we will keep our Charlottesville home. But even when I am in Charlottesville, I am working on the Ocean Center.
This is a good and important project and I am proud to be doing something positive to help our community. This projects squarely addresses two issues that I hear raised repeatedly: Economic development and educating the public about our ecosystem. This project is designed to create a bigger pie for existing business owners to share not to create more competition for the same sized pie. By running the Ocean Center as a non-profit, the need to make a profit is eliminated so that the local for-profit businesses can benefit from the increased economic activity. I’m working hard on this and not receiving any monetary compensation. My compensation is the knowledge that I am being a responsible member of my community.
**
I’ll close with a note to Eddie Skakle. I would love to sit down with you and explain this project, but why do we need to wait until a hurricane? In January I knocked on your front door to talk to you about the project. I explained some of the plans for the Coastal Ecology Education Center my thinking being that you would be pleased to hear about new potential customers. At the time you did not show much interest. I am very glad that you’ve now had a change of heart and want to speak. Please email me at ekaplan@hioceancenter.org so we can arrange a time to talk in person. I think face-to-face will be a much better way to communicate than electronically, through a public forum.
Eric Kaplan (URL) - 26-06-’12 08:06
I recall the 300 ft signs were put up by pier operators to keep surfers from interferring with fishing lines in the water.
Salvo Jimmy - 26-06-’12 09:31
Eric,
I assume you’re well meaning in wanting “to make a difference” on Hatteras Island. Personally, I think too many differences have already been made, from giant ocean multifamy rental machines to liquor served in restaurants to Wings chain discounters. Maybe the best way to make a difference is to preserve what makes Hatteras so special and what keeps it from becoming another Nags Head. We need to control growth, not add to it. A large concrete pier with business concessions is not in the spirit of island. Many of us don’t want “a diifference.”
sounds like a great project to me. it would be nice if all of the souviners sold there were made in the usa. preferably in dare county. it is gross to go to jenettes pier and see mostly made in china stuff when we have so many talented artists and artisans right here in the outer banks.
roanokeislander - 26-06-’12 15:43
the no surfing around piers and motels regulation was about 25 to 30 years ago. one man in buxton was constantly calling to complain about people surfing around cottage avenue. seems the complaining stopped as more surfers rescued swimmers in trouble.
bbc - 26-06-’12 17:29
Seems I made the nimby comment before on this topic…….still holds true…….folks that got theirs don’t want others to have any………
Chuck Allison - 26-06-’12 19:25
No offense I love the idea of this pier and all, but wouldnt a new bridge be a better way of investing money in this island?
Samsdad1 - 26-06-’12 19:49
Mr. Kaplan,
—how much money will you need to raise to start construction?
—will the money come from donations, personal funds, a commercial loan, grants, or a combination of these sources? If a combination, can you give a percentage breakdown of each component?
—how much have you raised so far and from what types of sources?
—how long do you think it will take to secure the funds needed to start construction?
—what is your contingency plan in the event that not all of the funds needed to get this off the ground are available to you? Would you scale down the project to match a reduced budget? If so, what might a
scaled down project look like as compared to your full plans?
It would be helpful to know these details before we engage in yet another acrimonious debate about what this island “needs.”
Anonymous - 27-06-’12 08:09
The 300 foot rule was imposed because people can’t swim or surf where there are fishing lines in the water. Its a common sense safety factor.
Badfish - 27-06-’12 08:39
Couple more questions for Mr. Kaplan:
— do you have an option to buy the properties that you don’t already own? If you will be using county or other public funds to acquire these properties, how will the public be assured that the public is not overpaying for these parcels?
—if you have secured options to purchase these properties, when do
the options expire?
Thank you for your participation. A public forum is probably the best place to discuss a public project.
Anonymous - 27-06-’12 09:04
One more comment for Mr. Kaplan:
If you own a home somewhere else, you should always evacuate when requested to do so. Those of us who have our entire lives and livelihoods here don’t usually have another home we can evacuate to. You do use the resources when you stay and you put yourself in harms way.
Does the NPS,in fact,have any say on property/beach use in the villages?Could Audubon et.al…launch more time/money- wasting lawsuits? If taxpayer funding is utilized does that not mean a measure of government control?
Hawk Hawkins - 27-06-’12 09:13
OOOORRRR we could extend the pier around and reconnect it for a new Bonner bridge?
samsdad1 - 27-06-’12 10:10
I think it would be nice to see all of this time, energy and money put into the Frisco pier. Support your neighbor instead of more development. If it isn’t development then what is it? The owner of the Frisco pier is your neighbor.
Badfish - 27-06-’12 10:37
One more question: how will you implement the “bigger pie” theory of economic development with respect to which tenants get priority?
Are you suggesting that tenants who already operate a HI business will receive preferential lease rates and terms? Will you require those tenants to expand operations rather than close their current operations and move to the Center?
I ask because if the new tenants move operations from a previous location to join your non-profit, then the pie doesn’t really get much bigger. In fact the original landlords will be harmed by the fact that a new, subsidized development is able to offer more attractive rates, terms, and locations.
These are important questions given that talk of the project has already resulted in a change to zoning regulations and Irene is so worked up that she’s saying a group of neighbors need to “get a grip” on “reality.”
Anonymous - 27-06-’12 12:11
Thanks for the good questions. I am happy to answer but I’d like to know who I am talking to.
The type of dialogue we are beginning to have does not lend itself well to notes being typed back-and-forth. Face-to-face, verbal communication will be the most effective. There are incorrect assumptions being made that lead to a chain of reasoning that is invalid because one or more fundamental assumptions are incorrect.
Here’s an example…
Assumption: Any new business takes away revenue from an existing business and/or landlord.
An example that illustrates that this is an incorrect assumption: One of the things that will make the pie larger is the increased number of destination weddings that Hatteras Island will be able to host. This brings new visitors without taking anything away from existing Island business owners and/or landlords. This has been confirmed by multiple companies in the wedding hosting business.
**
Let’s progress the discussion by identifying ourselves with our names and email addresses. From there we can figure out how to most effectively proceed.
Eric Kaplan
ekaplan@hioceancenter.org
Sorry the discussion didn’t work out.
I won’t provide my name or e-mail on this forum but certainly respect your right to do so. The reasons for staying anonymous have nothing to do with your project, the upset neighbors, Irene, or any related issue. Just personal choice.
Good luck with your endeavor. I mean that.
Anonymous - 27-06-’12 14:00
Hawk,
NPS owns all beach on the two islands including that in front of all villages. So, yes they have a say
Salvo Jimmy - 27-06-’12 17:42
The concept SEEMS like a good idea, but given that most of the businesses over at Hatteras Landing (by the ferry) have a hard time staying in business, as well as other businesses that have tried to make a go over it over the years (the wine store across the street from Rocco’s, This Little Cottage, every restaurant that has ever moved into the Hatteras Landing space), why do we think that another restaurant and shops added to a new pier would do any better?
not so sure - 27-06-’12 17:43
Not related.. but just closed beach access on ramp 34 to walkers.. walkway roped off nice…no public access here..and you want to spend millions..when there is no beach to access?? good luck..the buses will come I guess..
pat avon - 27-06-’12 18:06
It all sounds like a wonder idea on the plans,but some things need to be left on paper or left alone.
1)their is a pier in the area that something needs to be don’t besides being a eye sore.
2)the plans and postings from the oceanic center states that the main complex is the only thing to be built,meaning no pier no educational center or trails.What they did say bout the pier and center is sometime in future when enough moneys are generated that the pier and nature trails will be finished.(assumptions)
3)So now there’s more shops and restaurants.
Whats going to happen with the existing stores and restaurants.The business here have been struggling for many years now so were is the benefit here.“Oh” the planners say ,this is were u can have ur second business. The question now is were is the extra employees coming from.The businesses now have major problems finding employees
4)The Landing (down by ferry dock)is a good example of a modern facility that has a difficult time keeping tenants, Stowe On Twelve is another,Channel Bass finally is open after sitting for quite a few years.The list can go on.
5)it is said they are looking toward future to accommodate weddings.Hatteras has Marlin Club,Civic Center ,the Landing has Austin Creek Center now,plus others. You don’t see these places booked every weekend, so what makes this new place and different.
6)What would make Hatteras Island possibility flourish is a highway that is not washed out for a week to a number of months.The example i’m getting to is the millions of dollars lost last year from Irene and pryor storms over the years.
7)The plan sounds great ,but with the extreme storms that the island gets ,the continuing beach erosion,plus in a area were not long ago (2003)was devastated ,this plan sounds to complicate .
8) Finally I feeling a smaller scale plan that was constructed at existing Frisco Pier is the way to go!
Jennette’s cost $25 million and an extensive network of political connections that reached deep down all the way to the sub-contractor level. The IFP could do an article on just how likely it is that this project can overcome the financial and regulatory hurdles. As for NC Coastal Federation’s blessing, you might want to ask for a written letter of support for the pier part of the project before counting on them. Let’s be real. Can you afford to build this thing to the required specifications? There will be a lot of disappointed folks if the Ocean Center gets built with no pier.
Pier Review - 28-06-’12 17:21
Re Ramp 34 closure to peds.
This means btwn Salvo and Avon there is now less that 3/4 mile of reasonably accessible ped only beach area left. A little at Ramps 27 and 34.
‘Course few are using even the easily accessed ped only areas anyway (my observations over the last several weeks) so I guess it makes little to no difference.
Salvo Jimmy - 28-06-’12 18:30
I would not build anything in the OBX area for fear that a bird might be thinking of nesting in the area and shut me down.
John Dumbleton - 22-06-’12 19:20